Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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dallen
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by dallen »

I'm thinking about trying oil, you know what they say once you try it you'll never go back.

But I gotta wait till I get on a job where they got an extra nozzle laying around for their hot oil heater, need one that uses a backpressure releif setup for pressure adjustment. might take a while but I'll get one.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Just have not been happy with the top end on the gast pump 4cf. I think if it were just a little larger it would be great. It does work and is amazing simple and thrifty with power but the 0.6 cfm rating holds it back and yes it could be driven hard but I was getting 150* on it after running for long periods so it is not going to like getting pushed too much.

The Thomas pump cost me a total of $45 shipped and all it needed was wiring a plug onto it, with a 3+ cfm rating and much higher pressure capabilities it is sure feeling like a winner to me.

This thread is more about the options of various pumps, I still want to try an auto AC pump and a refrigerator and/or home AC pump too since both of these can usually be had virtually free.

David, its pretty easy to build a burner like the siphon burners. I built one and Nudge did too, nudge still uses his home made nozzle. I use the Hago simply because for me the $50 is a small part of the whole setup and they work great. I think metering the fuel flow is tougher than the nozzle with oil burner but then I am much picker than most on seeking this level of control because I always run my melts over long periods and overheating the furnace makes it tougher to time the melt with a much smaller window of opportunity of when to pour.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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I got to use the new Thomas Pump today and it held a steady 20 PSI open flow through the 0.2 GPH Hago nozzle. I would have thought it would have been a little higher but I am certainly good with that. I first hooked the pump up to the Loc-Line nozzle on my cnc, it has a 1/16" 90* nozzle on it and the pump held at close to 30 PSI. Sure doesnt seem like the Hago nozzle has a large orifice than that but either it does or the air nozzle on the cnc has a longer section at the minor diameter creating a greater choke than the Hago nozzle.

Either way I am happy as a clam, I usually run my power supply to the peristaltic pump on the fuel at 4.5 to 5.5v once the furnace is hot. The PS goes up to 19v and I will run it full on when starting up to get the temperature up over 1k degrees. This is on the tiny LS13 tubing in the peristaltic pump with an ID of about 1/16". The air supplied by the compressor is enough up to somewhere around 10 or 11v on the fuel supply so I turned off the little bilge blower once the fuel was metering below that. About the only other thing I need now is a way to turn the compressed air down when I have the fuel running low at aluminum temperature. I am thinking of putting the pump on a tank with a pressure switch for the pump with and in/out around 40/60 to cycle the pump and keep it low enough to prevent over working it. Might even just plumb it into my big tank and run the larger compressor to the 40 gallon tank I have set up on the Jolt Squeeze machine. The Thomas pump is an order of magnitude quieter than my HF compressor and draws a fraction of the power to run. Can you tell I am really pleased with it :mrgreen:

The pump never got above 100* and it was 90* ambient in the shop today. Now this was running open flow at 20 PSI and I would expect it would warm up considerably if it were being pushed to higher pressure but I was really impressed with this.

The other big bonus is the 30 PSI constant on my coolant line for the mill. I am going to pick up a few more of these, I have a note out to a seller on ebay who is getting $39 apiece with $15 shipping to find out what they would charge to send me 3 of them. In searching around for information on these pumps I came across a thread on cnczone where a guy used 6 of them chained together for a vacuum table. The thread never really concluded with how well it worked but seeing how these things work I can imagine that it would work pretty well.
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Jammer
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Jammer »

You have a .2 GPH nozzle? I thought you were using a 1 GPH. That may be one reason I'm having trouble with mine. Oil was going everywhere and then air was blowing back into the oil tank. I may have to take mine apart and start over. It's a delevan nozzle and I think you were the one that said to try to reverse the oil and air lines.

You can gang 6 of the pumps together, it will increase the volume of air moved but I don't think it will increase the vacuum any. That Welsh pump I picked up has excellent vacuum for what I want, degassing RTV and I want to finish my vacuum table.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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Yes the amount of vacuum it will pull will not increase but the amount of leakage it will keep up with while holding that same vacuum goes up and vacuum holddown systems have to overcome a lot of leakage in most cases. I think the guy in the thread I mentioned measured 29" hg with his but I see they are rated at 27.7 in most of the stuff I have read.

I was using a 0.75 but downsized when I started pumping my fuel. Trying to run as a siphon with the 0.20 did not work at all even with an elevated fuel tank because it wouldnt move enough oil. With the peristaltic pump I can move as much oil as I want so the smaller nozzle gives a better velocity on exit.
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Harry, All of Davids success in his siphon thread has me revisiting this idea...how are you liking the Gast pump, or are you still using it? I havent had a whole lot of time since may or so to do much casting at all. But I have been thinking a lot and have several ideas that I think can generate some seed money to put back into foundry improvements. A siphon setup is high on the list, as well as furnace 2.0. I want to openly say I will steal the Gast pump idea from you if its worth the time to compile the equipment. I like this design for the compact size, not needing to use a full size compressor, it seems more foolproof, and more likely to deliver repeatable conditions than an HVAC burner.

what are your impressions of the setup now that you have several months of use under your belt?
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

The gast pump was a little on the low end of what I wanted in compressed air. It was about the tiniest, quietest thing though and did atomize the oil but it would only hold around 8 PSI IIRC. I have been using a Thomas WobL Pump off eBay for the last couple of months and it keeps up with a steady 15 PSI or greater. It only pulls something like 450 W and is also pretty quiet so I really like it. I think I am going to get a second and plumb them into a tank with a pressure switch something like 40/60 so I can crank up the air if I want to and the pumps will not have to run continuous though they have no trouble doing this with the temperature of the heads on them never having been about 110* F

I got the one I have now for around $50 shipped so the price was right but they are almost always available for under $100. There are different styles of them though and some are not made to go above 30 PSI and the model numbers done match up to the ones on the manufacturer site so it can be confusing trying to figure out which one to get.
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Are you able to use the T.W. pump straight of 110v or do you have to utilize some kind of power supply? I wasnt able to find anything on that pump using just a simple search. The Gast Rotary pump is supposed to put out up to 15 psi with 3450rpm @ 1/15 hp pushing it. I found a decent 1/3hp motor that I would hope could keep that thing in its upper register. The setup from Surplus Center runs about $70, so not too bad really. That said, if the WOB-L pump is a better pump, and is only gonna run me another $20 or so (meaning I dont have to buy a power supply), I would gladly pay for the performance boost. I still have to come up with the $50 or so for the nozzle and adapter...Im gonna have to get this HVAC burner to keep going for just a lil while longer so I can sell some castings to finance this thing :)
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
-Leonardo Di Vinci

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

The Gast pump will go to 15 PSI but the issue is volume. With the open flow of the siphon nozzle system to build pressure you have to overcome the loss of the nozzle.

Try "Thomas Pump" on eBay, yes these plug into 110. They are basicall a regular piston compressor pump but the Wob-L design (wobble) has the piston barely rocking back and forth. There is two cylinders with one at each end of the motor.
ThomasPump.jpg
I want to get another one of these and manifold them into a tank with a single power control pressure switch for both. This way if one went down I would still be making air and the two of them would still be under 1kw. They really are neat little compressors. I have seen where people have manifolded half a dozen of these to use as vacuum holddown systems on cnc machines.
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dallen
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by dallen »

works great the one I got last week had no problem keeping up with the way I had it jury rigged in yesterday with a bleeder valve dumping excess air it helt at 22 PSI for an hour. I'm gonna order me up a repair kit from the peps it got mine from. couple gaskets and valves is all there is. things pretty quite not as much as I had hoped for but quite. Like Harry I am going to get me a pressure switch with an unloader valve makes it easier on the motor to start. and run it on a (gotta figure out a tank maybe just use a freon bottle, that way if I need a travel tank I can just unhook it throw it in the back of the truck.
Now who left their two wheeler sitting on the side of the street? I need one for my burner control central, Houston we have a problem station.
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If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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