Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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GypsyTinker
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by GypsyTinker »

Any chinese stuff especially motors and controllers, expect HALF of their rated performance.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Well it sure likes the new controller a whole lot more, the motor spun up and held its power. Here is a little fitting I made to connect the air line, just a piece of brass bar stock with a hole drilled into it and threaded 1/4" NTP. I installed it in the tee below the gauge where the 1/4" hex nipple is in the next picture below.
tiny_compressor_fitting.jpg
Here is an overall shot of the setup. Just have it clamped down right now so it doesnt flop around. Plan on making a nice stand for it real soon now that I know it works so well.
tiny_compressor.jpg
Here is a video of it running, not quite as quiet as I had thought it would be not to noisy at all and there is no filter on the intake yet which will quiet it considerably. 11 PSI steady it good for me, this is up in the kick it in range on the siphon nozzle.



Now to see how long it hold up to heavy use. I am tempted at this point to get a second setup and hooking them together to run two at once. This should push me up to the pumps rated 15 PSI at a lower rpm which would both be quieter and make the pumps last longer.

Pretty excited about this because I like running the furnace with the air pressure higher than 4 psi, just dont like running the compressor that much. Still on the lookout for other alternative low pressure (under 30 psi) air pumps, would maybe like to try something like mini roots blower.
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GypsyTinker
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by GypsyTinker »

Very fun set up :D

Ever consider fridge compressors?
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Harry wrote:Well it sure likes the new controller a whole lot more, the motor spun up and held its power...

not quite as quiet as I had thought it would be not to noisy at all and there is no filter on the intake yet which will quiet it considerably. 11 PSI steady it good for me, this is up in the kick it in range on the siphon nozzle.
Awesome. Im sold on the pump.Do you have any idea what RPM that motor was spinning at to get to 11 psi? Still need to find out what that tile saw motor spins at. Its a pretty stout unit though, was able to cut through heavy duty glazed porcelain tiles pretty easily, and should be continuous duty. Im gonna have to get that siphon nozzle kit from patriot supply now.
Harry wrote:Now to see how long it hold up to heavy use.


Still on the lookout for other alternative low pressure (under 30 psi) air pumps, would maybe like to try something like mini roots blower.

What about sourcing a 1 hp high speed, continuous duty motor from surplus supply, gearing it up with a transfer or a washing machine gearbox, to spin at something like 8k RPM final output, and attaching a junkyard turbo? just a though. Could be kind of a janky setup, but with a little welding and fab work, could be quite bulletproof, and compact...ish lol.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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Yes and when I come across one I plan on trying it out. My understanding is that you have to keep the oil level up but it shouldnt be too difficult to make a sight tube for the compressor. I also thought having a tall (maybe 2') 3/4" or so standpipe with steel wool or something in it might help to get the oil out of the air and back to the compressor.

From what I get out of reading with those compressors they are very low volume though but they will go up quite high on pressure if left unchecked.

I have also thought about trying an ac compressor from a vehicle, I think these might push a little more volume at low pressure without too much of a motor to run them. Read mention of welding the clutch on them to make them run continuously.

I would like to see what others are up to in their own experiments of compressor building especially small (1 cfm) low pressure setups.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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I think it will work out great 4cf but like I said it is going to depend heavily on how long it will last. If it will go 500 hrs or more without having to replace/rebuild the pump then its golden. Nice compact, the motor and controller should last a very long time and it is pretty quiet. It did cost $100 though which is the same I got my electric compressor from HF for but then that is already leaking oil and I seriously doubt it will run 1000 hrs. Plus the only part that should need replacing is the pump which was only $30.

Would be nice if it went to 30 psi because that extra blast of compressed air can really heat things up when you are pumping a lot of oil as in when scrapping or metling iron. I am happy with the 11 psi though since this is going to save a lot of runtime on the bigger compressor and I can run up to the 11 psi it is putting out.

The turbo sounds cool, how much boost so you think you could get out of one? I believe you would have to have an open bypass, seems like they suffer from cavitation if they have too much backpressure and you would only be using a tiny portion of the air made. Maybe you could use some of this waste air on the other side as boost to make it more efficient. Would there be any possibility of chaining a few of them to make even more pressure? I have been thinking a lot about a turbofan setup but man that seems like it would be complicated even on a small scale but it would be fin to build, kind of like a scale roots blower.
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Nudge
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Nudge »

Pull the drill apart and put the new motor in it ;) the drill is using it gearbox for the power, now you just need to soeed it up a bit. :geek:
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Harry, many turbos are capable of putting out crazy pressures. I know a guy at work pushing 30 psi through the stock turbo in his saab. Now hes done quite a bit of work to get there, but its possible. The big thing is reliably being able to spin the turbo at 10k+ rpms for an extended time, hence the need for a decently powerful motor, and a way to safely multiply its rotation. An open bypass could be used also as the blower. Pressurize a small chamber, maybe a lpg tank, with a welded bung for a small line for the siphon. The open bypass could be as simple as just opening the valve on the lpg tank and run a line to the tuyere. Would be a larger overal system (meaning the physical size would be bigger), but could also be the 1000hr capable system youre loking for. The key is going to be a ball bearing turbo with minimal shaft play, and a good and heavy duty electric motor.

Now, after saying all that. The gast pump/siphon setup IS next on my list. Ive decided to go ahead and fix my hvac burner so i can turn out some castings, sell the castings, and use the proceeds to purchase the pump. Im going to have a lot of quesitons ...just warning you now :roll:. Like i said, i have a motor, but im not sure how to tell if its the type that will do well on a speed control. And the control i have is just a lighting dimmer knob wired at the end of an extension cord, with a wall outlet on the output. Wiring is one thing, thats not too hard. But electrical engineering has never been my forte, and i want to be sure i dont burn things up.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Cant help much on the electronics here either. Like I have said before I just buy things and hook them up, if the magic smoke doesnt come out I win.

What I know about this setup is in the posts above, if you can get 2k rpms on this little pump it will work. If you can run it up to 3 to 4k it will work mo betta.
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Well, after some digging, I think I might have some specs. THese are from a nearly exact duplicate of the tile saw I scavenged my motor from. These are specs from a 7" tile saw from harbor freight...about as generic as they come:

-3565 RPM blade speed
-3/4HP motor, 110V, 60 Hz, single phase
-Arbor diameter: 1"
-3.8 Amps
-450 Watts

Again, I cant remember the specific brand of saw this motor came out of, so this may not be exact specs, but the 3/4 hp and the 3.5k+ rpms are exciting, as I think this will be a suitable donor to my siphon setup.

Any electrical gurus on here wanna chime in about anything that is glaringly off about those specs or any clues I should look for about this motor? its nearly silent, so i guess thats "brushless"? I have no idea lol

Harry, as to not jack your thread any further, once I begin to undertake this project in earnest, I will be sure to start a new thread.

-Drew
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
-Leonardo Di Vinci

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
-Jim Morrison
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