Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

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Harry
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Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

I ended up buying this Gast rotary vane pump on eBay the other day. I thought it was a pretty good deal and have been playing with the idea of building something like this for awhile.

It is 0.6 CFM at a maximum of 15 psi so it sounds ideal for a siphon burner. My thought is to run more air through the atomizer which will mean the load on the little blower will be lighter. Also the more air you run through the siphon nozzle the better it will burn because of better mixing and atomization but the trade off is the compressor running more. With the current setup air to the nozzle is run at about 4 psi in the interest of conserving compressed air with the balance supplied by the blower.

I also picked up a speed control and a 12v motor from surplus center (Got few other things from surplus center at the same time to dilute the shipping including a 12v transfer pump for moving oil). Shipping is like $11.20 for one item and for the 10 or so items I got it was only $18. So in the cart went a few other little motors that looked cool and were really cheap along with some fan blades and a old style rotary dial phone ($12) for the shop (loud ringer in those old phones)... gotta love spending money to save money, I sound like my wife :/

I will be trying that power supply on peristaltic pump motor that meters the fuel and the bilge blower also. If it works well I will get a couple more. I tried the current lab PS I use to run the oil pump on the bilge blower and it wanted to kick over to constant amps over about 10v so I could not even run that motor up to the 18v the PS can provide. I think it might have something to do with little resistance on the motor because it is just spinning a fan but then I know nothing about electronics, I just buy stuff and plug it in and if it doesnt smoke I win :) Anyhow these are quite a bit cheaper than the PS I am using now so if they work it will be great. Will buy them from Amazon though because I found them there for the same price and free shipping.

All together the pump, controller and motor came to about $100 which is what I got the 3 hp HF compressor for while it was on sale. I thought about running it straight off my 12v battery bank but then I couldnt adjust it, also considered using the $12 dc speed controller like on the bilge blower but wasnt sure if it might not be too much power on this larger motor for that little circuit. This should run silent though and even though it will run continuous while running the burner I would think be more economical to run. It should also last much longer than the compressor and since it will be taking the load of making air for the burner off it make the compressor last longer.

Should be getting all these pieces in next week and will be able to see if it will work or not. Will post pictures and results soon.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Got a picture of the little pump I picked up.
Rotary_vane_pump.jpg
Will have the motor and speed controller in next week so I will be able to see if this thing is going to be able to make enough air and pressure for running the siphon burner. I sure hope it does because it would be much better to have this running while the furnace is on rather than the compressor for a third of the time. I can imagine a little 12v motor and this pump should run just about forever before it wears out but even if the vanes wear they are two sided and replaceable... will have to check on the replacement cost, hope its not more than I paid for the pump :D
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Please keep us updated harry...both here and bymc forum...im VERY interested in results
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

I will post everything I find out on this here in this thread 4cf but I am not likely to cover the entire post on BYMC. It is linked and I will try to remember to note updates there but not likely to include images because they cannot be hot linked from here which would mean having to correctly size them and upload via ftp... kind of kills the functionality of being able to upload images right into this forum.

I am very interested in this myself as far as will it work and how well. Tracking info from UPS says I will have my motor on Monday, not sure when the speed control will be here. Even if this setup doesnt do the job I will keep looking in directions. The low psi (5 to 30) and low cfm (less than 1) requirements to run these burners leaves them open to a lot of alternatives to large compressors.
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Encouraging test, hooked up a Dewalt DC988 3 speed cordless drill and set it on high. Specs say this drill is 2000 rpm max and the motor I am getting is 3250 and I figure I should be able to overdrive it a little since the speed control goes to 15v.

After hooking up a 15 psi gauge on a tee to the outlet side of the pump and spinning it up I read 14 psi holding my thumb over the open outlet of the tee. So I took the fitting the air is currently plugged into an air line from the big tank and wrapped some electrical tape around it and held it in place on the tee. Spinning up the pump with flow going through the nozzle I had a steady 3 psi on the gauge, turned on the oil and it atomizes nicely. There was some air leaking around the fitting so a good connection here will help.

This means it will work, no doubts left at all. One thing I had hoped for is higher pressure though, the whole reason for running down this low was to conserve compressed air. Keeping my fingers crossed that nearly doubling the rpm when the motor gets here and a better job on the connections will get me to 10 psi or better. Also wondering about how much the pump can be over revved, it says it is rated for 3450 rpm but it might have to spin a little faster :twisted:

10 to 15 PSI really boosts the atomization but eats up the compressed air too.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
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4cylndrfury
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

thats really encouraging harry. looks like i will be headed down this path soon. gonna start saving my duckets. im particularly interested in NOT having t
thin my oil with kerosene and then filter it to run in my hvac burner. i have an old tile saw motor that still is in good shape. wonder how fast it spins? gonna have to hit the googles...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
-Leonardo Di Vinci

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
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Jammer
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Jammer »

I've got a pump like that, may be the same model. It has an AC motor on it and is rated for 20mmHg Mercury vacuum. I don't know if I can put a dimmer switch on it. They mess up some AC motors. I wonder if I could hook up a small relief valve that would release at about 12psi and then attach a tank for volume. Just let the pump run all the time. I would have to get my siphon burner back out. I got aggrivated at it and stuck it in the closet. :(
quando omni flunkus moritati 8-)
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Might not even need to be able to turn it down jammer. Hook it up to the nozzle and see what pressure it maintains with open flow, might need to run water or better oil through it to get a good reading as it seems like that would help create some restriction.
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Harry
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by Harry »

Not real pleased with the performance of the motor I got for this though not completely ready to toss it out either. I hooked it up to the lab power supply and spun up the pump with it, when I covered the outlet with my thumb it bogged down quickly noticeably slowing the motor. It was able to hold 4 psi but was running probably half of its no load speed. Will wait until the other power supply comes in and try it but I am thinking I will need to get a bigger motor. The 4psi will run the furnace but I want to be able to push it up to at least 10 psi.
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Re: Compressor alternative for a Siphon Burner

Post by 4cylndrfury »

Sounds like it was still a success that you were able to establish a baseline. Will that type of motor benefit from more volts or is it really going to just require a larger motor? Inquiring minds want to know!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
-Leonardo Di Vinci

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
-Jim Morrison
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