oil syphon burners

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Harry
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by Harry »

Dave, the turbine disrupts the air flow and creates turbulence that mixes the fuel and air. I have found that it does make a huge difference plus it holds the nozzle center in the tuyere. You need to run some compressed air through the nozzle, the oil wont atomize with none but it can be very low once it is running, I have run mine with as little as 2 PSI.

Yes you need to make sure you have enough fuel for a melt... I have a couple thousand gallons so I dont worry about running out though my tank has run dry a few times while melting. The tower I set up holds about 4 gallons up 12 feet high but I have an air boy oil tank like they used to have in gas stations to fill a quart or two can, it holds 50 gallons and is plumbed into the tower so all I have to do push the handle a couple of times and the tower tank is full again.

If you go to a small mechanics shop, you know a mom and pop sort of place you can usually find someone who would let you take all the oil you want. Another option is fryer oil from restaurants, oil is oil and that oil would even smell good when burning.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
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dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

I forgot the tape till I was at about the third picture which I figured was a little too late, I also got to worrying about the mold going back together without messing up. Guess it made it for the casting to make it that far. I will build it up with some tape on the blades, I also need to fill in the center with a plug or something to stop sand from getting rammed into it. I mixed in a bunch of new sand with the old that I had been using which had a lot of oil in it and this rammed up very hard, I really need to find a screen that will let this sand pass as it has some trash in it from a botched pour from yesterday, I should of shook out on top of some hardware cloth that I have and caught the trash before it hit the muller.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

Harry wrote:Dave, the turbine disrupts the air flow and creates turbulence that mixes the fuel and air. I have found that it does make a huge difference plus it holds the nozzle center in the tuyere. You need to run some compressed air through the nozzle, the oil wont atomize with none but it can be very low once it is running, I have run mine with as little as 2 PSI.

Yes you need to make sure you have enough fuel for a melt... I have a couple thousand gallons so I dont worry about running out though my tank has run dry a few times while melting. The tower I set up holds about 4 gallons up 12 feet high but I have an air boy oil tank like they used to have in gas stations to fill a quart or two can, it holds 50 gallons and is plumbed into the tower so all I have to do push the handle a couple of times and the tower tank is full again.

If you go to a small mechanics shop, you know a mom and pop sort of place you can usually find someone who would let you take all the oil you want. Another option is fryer oil from restaurants, oil is oil and that oil would even smell good when burning.
Fuel, for the amount that I will normally use I can buy red diesel, when I am on a job I can get fuel from the asphalt plant that I am working on so I don't need to beg from the not so many shade tree mechanics that are around here. Guess I'll start looking at buying a different nozzle adapter and nozzle. the amount of oil that I have used so far is about 6 quarts so that's and oil change on the truck.

I do believe that if I can get this thing straightened out that I may not have to change the refractory in the wall of the furnace. I am going to start looking at using a differant blower that the one that I have which is a vacuum cleaner motor, I need to build and all metal burner anyway and get rid of the PVC fittings that I have had stuck in it, I know the burner will work I just need to finish it the PVC was an easy way to prototype different designs with out spending a lot of money or time buying or making metal parts.

I have the nozzle mounted so that it is pretty well in the center of the tube and about an inch and a half back in from the end I know on all the burners that I work on in the field big and small the nozzle is right at the end of the tube, this is probably hurting me, I don't remember what the spray angle was on the nozzle I got I may need to go to one with a shallower angle so the fuel will be in a tighter stream this may help it may not. One thing for sure is I need to redo the area around were the burner is inserted into the furnace I busted it up pretty good removing a piece of two inch stainless pipe that I had in there which had oxidized and growed in diameter which cause me to have to really work on it to get it out.

as you have seen I am working on a spin vane, hoping to use the same computer fan blade that I had in the other burner, I believe this will work, I almost got a casting off of it yesterday sure would of made my day with all that went wrong yesterday but sad to say I only got to about the 75% mark on achieving a usable casting, so its back to the slave yard on that one.

Anyway since I am going to have to use air with this nozzle till I get it straightened out I think I have an old fridge compressor from days gone by, I do know that I have a vacuum pump that should put out enough air to run the nozzle if I am supplying blower air and fuel pressure. anyway if I can't find the compressor that I have I have a friend that is in the HVAC business I'll get one from him.

anyway I'll keep you posted on what goes on, it would be nice to get this working on a small 1.5 inch scale that way I could pretty much use it in all my furnaces, or at least the two larger ones.

well I guess I better get around and figure out what I am going to do, I have an idea for brazing up a spin vane just need to see about cutting out some parts. Now would be a great time for a CNC Mill with 5 axis on it and a motorized rotary table on it.

David J. Allen

P,S. if you happen to think of anything else that might help in my quest for the perfect flame, please feel free to say I told ya so. I would really like to cut my iron melting time a lot shorter than it is, I also need to be getting hotter than I have been. I guess this is what makes this such and interesting hobby.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

been doing a little work on the burner making a turbulator/spin vane. heres a pic of in in the milling machine

Image

and one of it after I put it back in the lathe and did some trim the fat on it, I could trim I lot more off of it but I think it don't need to look like a skinny Brazilian swimsuit model,

here is a link to the album instead of me re posting the individual photos

http://s1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... %20burner/
I have also added three more photos of the burner, one with the new / old vacuum cleaner motor that I like because of its size and the amount of air that it puts out. one of the burner opening in the furnace while running and one of the far wall that the flame inpinges on while running.

The video is still linked on youtube
Last edited by dallen on Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

well I put the thing back together and here's a little video of it burning sorry no melt, too late in the day for me to drag all that junk out. I don't have a valve on the oil side yet so its what ever it flows at with 15 PSI of air, I lite it with propane at about 3 PSI gauge is a little whacked out, but never had it over 6 PSI, it burns a hell of a lot hotter with a little Propane in the mix, the only thing I can say for as to how hot it got is that the piece of Kaowool that I soaked in Diesel for a lighter was glowing white, will have to wait till tomorrow to see if I melted the wall any more. Plus I'm gonna try to melt some iron again tomorrow. No sense messing around I build the damn thing to melt iron in might as well see if it will melt it, better then what it has been doing.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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Harry
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by Harry »

No doubt that is hot, you are making me want to plumb propane into my setup. I have thought about this for quite a long time because I like the way it burns when the torch is in there while lighting. Just seems to give it an extra bump right off making the fuel burn faster.

Show some pictures of how you plumbed the propane in. I have a couple of regulators and a 100# tank. I figure I will hard pipe down into the pit and put a valve near the furnace end, did you use a check valve in the line at all?
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
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dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

drilled and tapped a hole about a foot from the end of the pipe away from the nozzle and screwed in a 1/8 inch pipe nipple with a air hose quick connect on it that fits my propane hose. One thing with running dual fuel is that I can have the furnace running is that there is not really any yellow in the flame what you can see of it, of course I was burning new Diesel also, haven't changed the oil in the truck yet, so I'm getting a pretty complete burn. And without messing with the air fuel ratio on the oil I can either have the furnace running lean or rich. It takes only a small increase in the gas pressure to have a flame 2 feet high out the exhaust. I need to check with my refractory supplier here in town and see if they have some rope seal that I can use between the body and the lid to stop hot gas from escaping out between the lid and body. I have enough refractory to reline the wall, I plan on taking it all out and replacing it with 3000 HS if the wall thats in there now keeps melting.

If it will hold up I would like to build a small cupola but I am going to have to find a source for coke first, not going to build one and then find that I can't fuel it. I think that cupola would allow me to do some of the casting that I want to do easier than doing it in a crucible furnace will. But I don't want to get into building one and find out that I can't fuel it out that I made it too small. Fuel is also going to have to be within driving distance that is reasonable expense wise to make it worthwhile.

if you watch the video and follow the red hose you will see where the propane goes in, its about at the 25 second mark in the video

I hope to try to melt some cast iron today if my back will let up feels like I been hit by a truck so I haven't been doing to much. I am in the process of rebuilding the burner at the moment so that it will look more like it came from a store instead of my backyard, so between the changes I am making strictly cosmetic doing away with the PVC part and putting both air and fuel lines inside and out the back end, and possibly a different blower to one that is quieter. I have one that I got from Surplus Center that is suppose to push 225 CFM, Should give me all the air that I will need and not be as loud as the Vacuum Cleaner motor that I have been using.

modified the turbulator last night by cutting some of the back end off so that I can slide it back enough that the tip of the nozzle will stick out just a little, in the picture above it is setting just inside the bore of the spin vane, that thing isn't very pretty ( I don't have the knowledge to cut a spiral around the part) so I cut straight thru it and tapered the back side where the air hits it at, I should of used a 5/16 cutter instead of the 3/8 but it works. I hope to be able to keep everything in the two inch burner tube hopefully, so I don't have to chisel a larger hole in the furnace.


Sounds like your refractory got caught in the economic crunch like everything else. Will grab a still of the burner tube so you can see where I put the propane in at, it really doesn't matter too much as long as its about six inches away from the furnace and in front of the blower, it just needs to be in where it will mix good with the air.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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Jammer
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by Jammer »

Looks like it was plenty hot. I'll have to get my Delevan nozzle out and play with it some more. I know I'll have to preheat with propane, but I hope I can turn it off and run on straight used motor oil. Do you have to fuel coming out the center hole or from the outside ring? I think it was Harry that told me to reverse it so the oil came around the outside and the air is in the center hole. I was so aggrivated by then and had oil everywhere, I put it up and haven't touched it since. :x

Hey David, Nice legs. :lol: :lol:
quando omni flunkus moritati 8-)
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

first time I hooked it up I had the air coming out the center, this is wrong if you look at the catalog you will find that the oil/fuel goes through the center and the air comes out the outside ring, I don't know if there is a download section to this site haven't found it yet shot me your email and I will send you the paperwork I downloaded from Hago Delavan

I was pretty pissed about how it was working till I turned it around and made the piece you see me holding in the picture posted the other day, its not what I would call a top notch machine job but it made a hell of a difference in how it works.

I feel like after running it on Sunday that I will probably leave the propane hooked up, I was only running what amounted to three or four pounds. My pressure gauge is off when the bottle is shut off the needle sits on the first grad, so what ever its reading you can knock that much off of it, once the furnace is hot I can turn it off if doing aluminum and probably brass and bronze, but I think that I will still need that little kick to get iron temp if I want to do it quick. and I need all the heat I can get cause the wall in my furnace is 4 inched thick even with it made from Insulating refractory it takes a while to get up to temp.

I was hoping to try a iron melt today but I have a hip that feels like someones hit it with a sledgehammer so I may not, but with that aside I am making some mods on the burner its self so I may not get it back together today. I will just have to see.

Give me your email and I will send this paper to you
Image
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
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Re: oil syphon burners

Post by dallen »

got a little work done on the burner today, basically I have the same setup that was in the video but its all metal, and I hooked up a different blower which from what I can tell was a mistake, but thats what experimentation is about, if it doesn't work try something else, I was able to build quite a bit of heat but don't think that It was as hot as in the video. plan to reinstall the vacuum cleaner motor tomorrow and see if I can melt some iron with the it.

I also have a new aluminum flux to try from Small foundry Supply, I was pretty disappointed with this outfit, after trying to deal with them in person while in St Louis where they are located, I placed an order for the flux which I thought would of been shipped within a day of two of ordering, they didn't ship for almost a week. Anyway I ordered both an aluminum degassing drossing flux and one for Copper, bronze, brass alloys, price was pretty good 8 dollars a pound, which sounds high till you understand that it takes a very small amount of this stuff to work. Guess I should post this over in the chemicals section.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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