Hybrid Oil/Propane Burner

The Heat is ON in Here.
User avatar
Harry
Site Admin
Posts: 1020
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Onyx California
Contact:

Hybrid Oil/Propane Burner

Post by Harry »

Well since David put his together I felt the push to try this myself. I had been hem hawing on putting this together for quite some time but Davids report on it gave me the incentive. Took me a few hours to round up all the fittings for the rebuild but the delay in getting to scrapping was worth it. I believe I like this setup very much though I will have to play with it a little more to make a final decision.

A few things I noticed is that the fuel seems to burn quicker and more completely, the blue/white portion of the flame is much larger than on oil alone and the heat is all in there.

I am guessing that the propane pressure has to be greater than the back pressure of the air in the nozzle or is that not how a propane regulator works?
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
Muller
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

your propane regulator works just like any other regulator in that it regulates the output of the regulator nothing more. if you set it at 5 psi it should hold that as long as he pressure in whatever you have t hooked to has a greater pressure in the supply.

Mine is cooled down now, so I can pull it apart and I'll grab a snapshot of the insides as of the last modification, and after yesterday I think I may have to mod the tubes on the inside and pull the nozzle back about an inch. cause yesterday it wasn't burning as clean as it did in the video.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
User avatar
Harry
Site Admin
Posts: 1020
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Onyx California
Contact:

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by Harry »

See thats what confuses me David. An air regulator set at 5 PSI will try to let enough air through until the is 5 PSI of back pressure on the downstream side. If another source is feeding the downstream line at say 20 PSI then no air should pass through the regulator. I am thinking I need a valve after the rgulator then open the regulator to a higher pressure than the air through the nozzle and meter the propane by use of a valve in order to push the propane into the line with the 20 PSI back pressure. I did not have a gauge on the line so I havent a clue as to what pressure I was running but I did have a gauge on the air line and was running just over 20 PSI
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
Muller
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

I understand now what you are trying to do, yes for that to work if you from what I understand if you tee the propane line into your air line you will have to have a higher setting on your propane line to overcome the air pressure. but why are you doing that when all you have to do is to bleed the propane into the blower air that you use.
you are going to have to have the extra line up to the burner anyway,
once the 20 PSI of air pressure exits your nozzle you don't have all that much in back pressure in the furnace body its self.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

this is my burner all put together, it is going to get a new blower I don't like this one, #1 reason is it is 220 and doesn't move as much air as my Vacuum cleaner motor, I don't care how much the neighbors hate the noise,
Image

This is a shot of the (in the trade is called the gun) innards
Image

You will notice that there are three hookups two with valves, the one without a valve is the propane line.
Image

In this shot you will see that the propane line is only about 6" long, all it has to do is get the propane into the air stream, all metering and whatever is taken care of at the regulator. to light the burner. I soak a rag with some diesel and light it, place it in the bottom of the furnace turn on blower, then open valve on propane bottle and slowly increase the regulator for the propane till it lights. I let it run for a few minutes then turn on the air for the oil and adjust the air pressure to what I want. The valve on the oil line was just added this morning. I have a couple more modifications that I want to make before seeing what I can melt.
Image

Yesterday I was able to turn the propane completely off, but I think that with the nozzle being even with the end of the tube that it was hindering the combustion of the oil. so I plan on moving the nozzle back one inch and see what happens

to see all the photos that have been taken so for of the burner follow the link below
http://s1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... %20burner/
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

here is a shot of the burner inlet into the body of the furnace with the burner running almost on 100 percent diesel fuel, just after this photo was taken I turned the propane off, had to raise the fuel can up about 3 ft to smooth out the burner and give it enough fuel.

Image
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
User avatar
Harry
Site Admin
Posts: 1020
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Onyx California
Contact:

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by Harry »

Ok, now I understand why it seemed odd. I plumbed into the pressurized air because I figured I might as well get free atomizing from the propane since it is under pressure already. I think what I am going to do is put in a valve after the regulator so I can adjust the flow and still keep the higher pressure. I have to say I love the way it burns.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
Muller
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

In my moving the nozzle I moved it back about twice what I wanted to so I have to make a new space, but at the moment I am trying to do some work on my house which I have neglected for eons( I know you don't have to say it) but I do hope to try and melt some cast iron with the burner this weekend.
I really don't think that with the small amount of gas pressure that you are running that you will gain anything by putting the propane into the air line but I also don't see anything that it will hurt, other than having to juggle two regulators and another valve.

I was running my burner when I first started melting iron with the propane going into the air stream about 2 inches from the open end of the burner tube that was stuck inside the furnace, I had people tell me that it wouldn't work like that, funny how things that are done on large industrial burners people say won't work on a miniature scale. they fail to look at the burners on say the furnaces Mifco sells that will handle up to an A20 crucible are setup.

I'm glad that you like the addition of the propane, the thing that I really like about the setup is that I have as clean a flame with the same amount of heat if not more, without the expense of burning all that propane. the stuff is damn expensive here and we make the stuff here in Oklahoma, or anyplace else that refines crude.
I have been thinking about a storage tank that I can fill easy and got to looking at a propane bottle that I have had for ages today it has a bad valve that leaks. I never changed it out for a new one so I guess the old one is going the pot-a-brass next time I cook some, and the bottle gets a couple holes drilled in it, and if the skin is thick enough a tap run thru the bottom for a fuel hookup and some legs about 3 or 4 feet tall. with maybe a shelf for the new Thomas compressor that should be here tomorrow, got really lucky on the shipping on it, I bought and payed for it on evil bitch today they packed shipped it today, last I checked it was inbetween witchia falls texas and OKC, so I will receive it today.

How did you plumb yours in Harry , you do a direct hookup off the compressor or did you hook up to a tank first?
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
User avatar
Harry
Site Admin
Posts: 1020
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Onyx California
Contact:

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by Harry »

I mentioned somewhere else I dont currently have a tank because I need to get a pressure switch to turn it on and off. I want a switch that will go from 40 to 60 or somewhere there abouts.

I used a cross with male and female quick connects on each side, a gauge on top and a bleeder (petcock) on the bottom I use to sluff air to adjust pressure to the nozzle.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
Muller
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Oil atomizing nozzle with propane

Post by dallen »

Sunday, was a day of paint and melted cast iron.
after priming the woodwork that I finished on Saturday, I went about my playing in the back yard in an orderly manner, first I got the Thomas Air Compressor rigged up so I could pump air with it and not use the pancake job. second I put the burner back together with the nozzle in the original position at the very end of the burner tube, not so good an idea after melting some cast iron yesterday.

It melted it, maybe a third of what I did the day before, and it didn't get nearly as hot, or I just didn't leave it in long enough but every thing was looking good so I poured, not a good idea. #1 problem was I didn't heat up the ole'Skimmer before plunging it in so now I have this two inch thick coating of cast iron on the damn thing which is gonna make it fun the next time I fire. This cooled the melt down some but not as much as it was, I just didn't get it hot. I did try some new well not new its a couple million years old, but it was whole Limestone instead of the dust that I used on Saturday (snagged 5 gallon pail full while in St Louis) that stuff works pretty good. I put about a half of a cup in the crucible when I put the pot in the furnace and after I poured and the thing cooled down so I could look I had this really nice clean bottom third of the crucible with what looked like a dust coating on it.

So I guess my third try will be to pull the nozzle back to where I had it on Saturday, switch back to Diesel from Kerosene, and move the spin vane forward about an eight inch so the holes the bleed air into the actual nozzle end are all open, Saturday I noticed a spot that looked like it was trying to burn back beside the nozzle like the flame was fluttering, or maybe had a hole in it. there shouldn't of been any black on it and there was.

One thing I do know is that this burner running on just propane only needs about 1 or 2 PSI to get really hot really quick. I think I will take one of my other blowers and see if I can set up a strictly propane rig for the smaller furnace when I want to do a pot of aluminum and don't need the 2 inch which won't fit the other larger furnace.

I've got to do some editing to do, then I will post a short video that I took yesterday, actually its kinda long with most is boring so, you don't get to see it.


David
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
Post Reply