Bill's Burner

The Heat is ON in Here.
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Bill Toomey
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:36 pm

Bill's Burner

Post by Bill Toomey »

I have't been here in a while! School eats time.

Yesterday, I finished making a very nice siphon nozzle. I effectively copied a hago nozzle. The main difference is that this burner only has two parts- a central core and the outer housing.

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This was a longer project. I needed to machine the steel core. I actually made one, and then while attempting to part it off, the bit grabbed it and bent the piece. That was after spending quite a bit of time on cutting threads... After much grumbling, I made another.

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Since the central piece is threaded in, you can easily adjust it, which is good for experimenting. Oil is fed through a port on the side. It flows around a groove and can enter through two holes which lead up the center and out to the tip. The tip is a 1/8 piece of brass tubing. Air comes through the port farther towards the orifice. It enters a groove as well. A film of air can pass over the end portion then between the brass tubing and the aluminum body.

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This burner creates a much finer mist than my previous designs, which had the air shooting up through the center. These created a mist and a few larger droplets. They also had this weird characteristic of pulsing. Not so with the new nozzle. It draws fuel very consistently.

Water test:
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Flame Pictures. These are burning kerosene.

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My plan is to run it on kero for a few minutes until the furnace is hot enough for waste oil.


Questions? Comments?
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Nudge
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Nudge »

It looks the part to me! You may even find that it will work with oil stright up. Give it a go with cooking oil its cleaner for testing.

Are you able to add a blower to the back of it? If so you shouldn't need to swap the burner out.
I like to build "Stuff" using Stuff that costs Stuff All!
Bill Toomey
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Bill Toomey »

I can run this on waste oil too. I will just have a valve that shuts off the kero and another to pipe in wvo. I tried to start it with just waste oil, but it wouldn't light. If I cut some spirals into the end of the steel piece, it might improve atomization even more. Then waste oil might light.


Does the nudge burner start on just waste oil, and is it waste motor oil or vegetable. Motor lights easier, but I will not burn that.

I believe the delavan and hago nozzles will light on just waste oil.
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Nudge
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Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Nudge »

The Nudge burner will light on WMO but it is a bit of a pain at times, I quite often cut the oil with 10% diesel and it will start up every time.
I like to build "Stuff" using Stuff that costs Stuff All!
F.C.
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Re: Bill's Burner

Post by F.C. »

In my experience, anything atomized that is flamable will ignite quite easily. That burner you designed seems to do the trick on atomizing the liquid. My concern is the amount of heat being drawn back into the burner (evidenced by the pic of the one with flame on). You don't want your burner physically connected to any flame else it will degrade the metal and burn itself out, or, cause a flame to ignite in your fuel delivery line. Suggestion.... if you're familiar with how a kiln burner works (they are venturi systems) I think if you applied your mister to a venturi collar you would remove the flame from the burner, itself, and also increase your air intake naturally without need for air injection. The venturi kiln burners have an adjustment flange on the end where the fuel line connects that you rotate till you achieve the precise air/fuel ratio that allows for the flame to release from the burner tip keeping your burner and the fuel line cool from air passing over and through. I've run my kiln burners to temps well over 2000 degrees purely with increased flow rate of the propane I push through them. 2000 degrees equates to 40 psi of propane. You will require a good regulator that will handle at least 60 psi to do this... not to mention a volume of propane capable of sustaining the psi rate. Using oils, however, I'd imagine if you pressurized the oil tank to 60 psi and regulated the flow using a needle valve with a thumb adjustment screw wheel, you'd easily manage to produce a pressurized mist with your burner capable of sustaining the flow/psi rate you desire with only a small compressor maintaining the pressur within the oil tank. You might even get ignition to occur with a spark plug attached to a magneto you can pull start with. I did a bronze furnace with a spark plug igniter (propane driven) that worked out quite well, however, at times, if you weren't jonny on the spot with it therer would occur a very LOUD KABOOOOOM!! report that would cause neighbors concern... HAHAHA... ahhhhhh, the memories!! Reminded me of my artillery days. HAHAHAHA.
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Nudge
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Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Nudge »

All I would be doing is adding a small blower to the back of the burner. Once you have the burner in a furnace it will burn quite differant. with oil it is a case of more oil / air = more heat
so it is better to more air and not need it than wish you could have more.
I like to build "Stuff" using Stuff that costs Stuff All!
Bill Toomey
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Bill Toomey »

Thanks for the tip FC. I will look into machining some other pieces for the tube.

Do you think that rounding the square ends of the nozzle would do anything?
F.C.
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Re: Bill's Burner

Post by F.C. »

Anything you do to reduce air friction and turbulance will increase air flow. As an experiment, try this.... (i demonstrate this to folks who are designing a burner for their home built furnaces) fire up a compressor and with the air nozzle in one hand squeeze the trigger and allow full air flow tthrough the nozzle (point away from face and other objects, of course) then with the other hand direct a 6" length of, say, 2" ID tubing in line with the air flow and directly in front of the nozzle (about 2 or 3 inches ahead). At first you will experience the "thrust" of the nozzle in your hand as air is exhausted through it, once you position the tubing ahead directly in line with the air flow you will experience twice the thrust. There's no more air going through the nozzle but there is twice the air flowing through the tubing due the air from the nozzle dragging along with it virtually equal amount of air. Experiment with different lengths of tubing till you decide which length would give you the optimum flow for what you intend it to do. Now, imagine how that would work if the tubing were replaced with an actual sized venturi. Now, imagine how a generated mist at 40 psi (equal to 40 psi of air flow) will draw equal amount of air along with it (and mixed proportionately) at the delivery end of the mechanism. Fabricate a means to reduce friction/turbulance and flow of the air being drawn/dragged through with the mist and you can fine tune the burner to produce a reducing flame or oxidizing flame condition including dictate how far off the burner tip your flame will present itself. Add a needle valve to miter the fuel flow and you can fine tune the burner even moreso. Google some ceramic kiln venturi burners and see if there's a picture on how those are constructed. Those things produce some phenominal heat... and they are simple in design. I do believe they fall short on performance purely due the fact no one's really cared to improve them over the decades. Anything can be improved upon, always believe that. The goal is to create a flame within the furnace you can barely see that totally surrounds your crucible. Your tell tale indication your furnace is at its optimum performance (with a crucible full of bronze inside) will be a slight lime green feathered flame slightly above the exhaust porthole of the furnace lid...this is a reducing flame that will have the least effect on the melt in regards to fuel gases causing contamination. In this condition you will see soon enough how quickly your melt occurs and comes up to pouring temp. To further augment the burner's performance, design the interior wall of your furnace to have a threaded appearance on the inner face wall. YOu can achieve this by casting the base with refractory first, once set to a slight firmness, insert a coiled used garden hose to the height you intend the inner wall to be. Coil the garden hose first to the diameter you desire and hot glue its coils together on the outter side where the remaining castable refractory will make contact. Carefully insert the coiled sleeve, weight it down to hold in place, then cast in your furnace wall. Once your furnace wall is set hard (give it a couple days to cure) remove the garden hose coils. YOu will see the cast in threads once the hose is removed. When you fire up the furnace run it on idle until you are assured all chemically bound moisture is removed. During this time you begin to see the tapered ends of the furnace wall threads begin to glow long before you see red developing in the furnace wall itself. Extend a mirror high over the furnace exhaust to see if condensation develops. If it doesn't, give the furnace throttle in increments while you watch and observe interior conditions. The goal here is to drive off chemically bound moisture not cause any fracture of the castable due to driving the temperature up to high too fast. Eventually you'll let'er rip full bore and run untill you see the inner walls glow near yellow white (those thread tips will always be hotter than the interior furnace wall, by the way, like electric heating coils do) then idle her back down to half throttle and then shut it down and cover the exhaust port and let her steap in it's heat till cooled. If you designed the furnace wall correctly and the burner has optimum performance you should be able to get that inner wall up to white hot in a fairly reasonable time which will literally "glaze" the castable refractory face and keep deterioration from occuring over repeated use as long as you don't store the furnace outside which would wick in atmospheric moisture. But the coiled threads inside the furnace will act like a shotgun choke sleeve inserted in a barrel and direct the flame inside to spiral evenly and uniformly from the base up to the exhaust port. You will notice you don't have to burn so much fuel, either, to gain the temps you desire. You will also notice eventually that you have over designed your burner allowing you to experiment with casting metals such as steel and iron and still have throttle left to experiment with, HAHAHA. Or, you can upgrade to a larger furnace build and transfer your burner to it and not have to worry about creating another burner to accommodate the added furnace capacity.

Ok... I'll hush now. Too much too fast, there grasshopper! :lol: Happy to see you again online, Bill. I missed your creative and inquisitive spirit. :D
Bill Toomey
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Bill's Burner

Post by Bill Toomey »

Wow. I read every word of that. I will start with the burner of course, but I'd like to see yellow heat again. Haven't gotten out to the furnace in a bit.

I guess the best thing about this burner is that it should let me get out to the foundry more often since I won't require 4 hours at a time.
F.C.
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:28 am

Re: Bill's Burner

Post by F.C. »

In casting, Bill, it's never "just" one thing to dial in... it's always a multiple of things that all need to be orchestrated together to pull off that perfect casting. Not just the equipment, but one must also consider the atmospheric conditions the casting is being performed within. Outside conditions can be favorable as long as the humidity is low, temperature is favorable, winds are slight (or near non existent), etc., etc., etc.... Then one must have the correct gating, venting, resevoirs, chills, sand mix, compaction, mold manipulation if so required, geeze... at times it seems the factors never end. But, here is where applied experience comes in to play. The more you do the better you begin to forsee what's needed to pull off that cast first time every time. ALWAYS keep a journal of everything you've done, tried, experimented with, failed at, what the pattern shape was, what type of mold you created to duplicate it, how thick, how hard of pack, what metal you used, fuel and air ratios, flux, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc...... I swear, this list (though seemingly adequate) can literally grow beyond one's imagination with each and every shape you encounter. NOTHING IS THE SAME!! NOTHING!! Each and every shape, size, thickness, appendage, etc., all take it's own perfect solution as to how best required to fill it. And believe me, Bill... when you seem to think you mastered something, someone with more experience will come along and show you one more thing to do to literally change the quality of what you produce in remarkable ways, all for the better. God Bless those i encountered in life that saw the heart in me and helped clue me in on bettering my processes... often by suggesting I quit putting too much science into what I'm inventing... just roll with what ya got at times, they said, and try see'n for yourself things you can improve upon based on what you've learned with what you have to work with. If your heart is in it (as is evident in you, Bill) you will eventually see something to try different that will produce a positive effect. Eventually, even though you feel you're still a novice at this business, the day WILL DEFINATELY come when even an experienced foundryman will raise an eyebrow and lean forward to hear how you accomplished something they never could. But hey... when those opportunities of wisdom comes along and relates some measure of intuition into my soul (like the afore mentioned) I shut the hell up and listen, wide eyed and thankful for the grace of them being willing to share. And paying attention is critical (because they rarely say it twice), 'cause there's been times I thought I heard something right, tried it, and it produced a deminished quality, then later I realized I missed a critical point... what was being referred to wasn't what I was trying to produce, LOL.... just 'cause it worked for the shape he was speaking about don't mean it'll work for everything else. How you recover from these errors in interpretation is to write everything down when the lesson is being taught, this way you can articulate back to them your understanding of what was said so you don't mistakenly take the advice and apply it to something that won't benefit from the solution.

Bill, your burner has amazing potential from what I'm seeing and imagining. Combine that with the proper furnace chamber, intake position, exhaust port, psi, etc., and you'll be far ahead of the game before you realize it. Eventually, you'll be "OUT THERE" so far folks won't have a clue how to relate to what it is you envision. If you're not make'n bank on product by then you really should reconsider why you're doing this in the first place. Another reality (once you get to that level of experience) no foundry will hire you because you'd be too bored doing the day to day repetitive shit they do year in and year out. HAHAHA... That's a fact!!
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