Sand

Supplier information and Creative Rummaging
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dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Sand

Post by dallen »

I started writing this last night and something gliched and I lost what I had written so I said to h#$% with it and went to bed.

SandThis is something that we all use in this hobby and bussiness that we have decided to get into for one reason or another. I myself have no trouble locating Sand, this is because I happen to have a supplier of Sand Blasting Media here in OKC that happens to handle Quikrete Fine Sand No. 1961-55, this is a very fine white I would say Silica Sand. It works great in either Greensand or Oilbonded Sand, a friend of mine mixes his own Petrobond with the very same sand.

The bit of information that I was wanting to post is that Quikrete's web site you can find the phone numbers to the Quikrete offices in your state. I would think that if a person was to call their office an ask for a distributor that handles a sand that matches their requirements for casting, ie cast iron needs a corser sand than say Aluminum, although most people use what they have for both. Anyway I do, except for when I may be trying something else like Crayola play sand in the blue color, it actually leave a presentable finish on Cast Iron.

Quikrete has this sand in three differant grades, so there is room to experment with differant mixtures and differant sands on differat metals.

Myself I am in the process of building a Muller so that I may mix Oilbonded sand ie Petrobond/K-Bond, there are several recipe's around those are the most often mentioned two that I know of.

My main reason for adding this post to the list of suppliers is that a lot of people have a very hard time locating a suitable media for their casting needs. One thing that most people seem to forget is that a hundred years ago foundries and People doing this on their own weren't able to run down to the local Sand Blasting Media supplier in their area or town and buy what they needed. They dug it out of the ground. Most rivers have a suitable sand along it. There is really only one thing that is required of the sand besides having a refactory point that is high enough to withstand the temperature of the molten metal that is being poured into it, and that is it has to have enough clay in it to make it stick together or bind together so that it will hold a shape when rammed up against a pattern.

I just this afternoon stopped at an Ace Hardware store near my house and out of couriosity checked in the Swimming Pool supply's, They had three bags of filter media laying there waiting for someone to buy them, Filter Media for a sand filter is nothing more that washed Beach sand that has been screened to a certian size, yes it may be a bit larger that what some would want for casting Aluminum, Gold, or Silver in but with some Bentonite mixed in it would work fine.

I hope this helps some find a sand that will work for their needs, Others the Experts should get a good laugh out of it.

David

P.S. Casters located in Oklahoma City area that don't know, but would like to know where to buy sand PM me and I will let you know.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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Jammer
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Location: Ohio

Re: Sand

Post by Jammer »

That's all good Info. For sand you just need to look at what's in your area. A friend of mine got his from a local county garage, they got a load of fine white sand and didn't like it for the road and concrete work so they got the coarse brown beach sand. He loaded up several hundred pounds of the good stuff.
I found a good source for a lot of casting supplies at a Pottery supply house. They have sand in several different sizes, bentonite, powdered Alumina, Black and red Iron oxide, and Sodium Silicate. They also have Fireclay, kiln wash and Insulating firebrick. Most stuff is pretty reasonable, except the firebrick, I think they want $6 each for them.
quando omni flunkus moritati 8-)
dallen
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Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Sand

Post by dallen »

I got a gallon of sodium silicate from a ceramics place here in OKC stuff wasn't worth pouring out for foundry work, but I got a source at a local non ferrous foundry that will mix as much as i want if I call em or sell me the SS by the gallon.

I gooofed one mold with the stuff instead of like 4 peercent I screwed up and put in about 40 stuffs still in the driveway hards as a rock


David

P.S. if I want a real fine foundry sand for facing, I could go by my mom and dads old place and get some of that good ole oklahoma blow sand is what we call it, almost fine as talcum powder. little bentonite in it and a little water be good to go.
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
blindpig
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Sand

Post by blindpig »

This may be a dumb question(but I'm gonna" ask it anyway). Back in the day most comercial/public places had containers of a really fine whiteish sand for putting out cigarettes.Would that sand be good for casting ? And if so where would ya get it now? Sometimes my "far back"memory is much better than like "what did I have for breakfast this morning"?) LOL.This often leads me down a lot of blind alleys(but it does tend to keep me busy).
Had to ask......
Don
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Harry
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Re: Sand

Post by Harry »

I used to work in underground utilities and when we did bores under roads we had to fill the area between the casing and pipe with sand. The sand used was silica sand, very white and very fine. The boring company would set up the sand which came in tank trucks and used air to blow it in place. Maybe contacting a local boring company could lead you to the supplier of the sand. Kills me because I have buried tons of this stuff on sites getting rid of leftovers.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun...
Muller
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Sand

Post by dallen »

blindpig wrote:This may be a dumb question(but I'm gonna" ask it anyway). Back in the day most comercial/public places had containers of a really fine whiteish sand for putting out cigarettes.Would that sand be good for casting ? And if so where would ya get it now? Sometimes my "far back"memory is much better than like "what did I have for breakfast this morning"?) LOL.This often leads me down a lot of blind alleys(but it does tend to keep me busy).
Had to ask......
Don
that is probably the same sand that I have in my bin, if you live in or near a large city you should be able to find sand that you can purchase at a reasonable price. Its really just a matter of looking at the indrustial side of thing.

some people say they can't find sand but they walk over tons of the stuff eveyday, if your located near a coast line or large lake with sandy shores. if the sand will stick together try it to see if it will handle the heat of molten metal.

The one big thing that is forgotten is that people have done this "metal melting" thing for thousands of years. They have in New York a sand that they call Albany Sand, its mentioned in all the casting books. it is a very fine grained sand, almost as fine a French Sand (similar to Olivine Sand which is manufactrued I belive) they have been digging this sand up and using it for a couple hundred years now. C. W. Ammens mentions in one of his books that he found a quarry in Colorado that had absalutely beuatiful molding sand.

the question you asked is not dumb, to tell you the truth just yesterday I was standing in front of a hardware store looking into one of those very same ashtrays full of sand and ashes, wondering it it would stand up to the heat of Cast Iron. Sand only has to have one or two physical characteristics to be of use to us as molding sand. It needs to have angular faces on it, in other words not round or smooth, and it needs a binder in it to stick it together. that only leave two classes of molding sand Natural and Artifical of synthetic the first should be self explanatory the second is mixed by man to suit his needs from natural materiall to suit his needs, this may inclue the addition of Sea Coal, Cereal, Wood Flour, and too many more to mention here.

For some people that have the resources and don't mind the expense will use chemical binders which will harden the sand into place and shape. Then after pouring the part they have made the mold of, when its shaken out will throw the sand away because of the binders that are in it they cannot reuse the sand, Sodium Silicate is one of these binder commonly call Waterglass, said to be made from LYE and Silica Sand, when it is left open will harden after a lengthy period of time just from the CO2 in the Atmosphere, and when closed up in a bad or something that will contain the gas and CO2 from a tank or something as simply as vinegar and baking soda are mixed together will generate enough CO2 to harden a five gallon pail of Silica Sand with 3to 4 % of SS mixed in, in just a matter of a few minutes if enough of the two common household chemicals are combined together in a bowl in the bag.

Sorry about being so long winded in answering your question you can read as much as you want. I have thought long and hard on this subject. Because it seems that there are places where it seems like there just isn't any sand, and it helps me with my typing skills. If it would just help me with my spelling.
For those in the OKC area here that have trouble finding a sand that is suitable to their casting needs call QUIKRETE® - Oklahoma City
(405) 787-2050 ask for a location of a dealer of their No. 1961-55 fine grain sand I don't know the number if the medium grain.

David
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
blindpig
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Sand

Post by blindpig »

Thanks for the quick come back guys.
Harry and David, both of you helped a lot,I've wondered about that fine sand for a while but thought it was gone, replaced by those tall pipes with holes for dropping cigarettes in before entering a business. I suspect we've got some sources around here,actually I'm east of you David,just six miles south of Springfield Mo. I've only got two 5 gallon buckets of sand that was given to me twentyfive or thirty years ago.Don't know what it is but is pretty fine and has always been black.It came from an aluminum foundry,thats all I know about it and that it works pretty well.
For the most part I've been doing shell molds but am slowly coming arouind to some sand casting,hence my question. Gonna' need more!!!
Again,thanks.
Don
dallen
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Sand

Post by dallen »

well its your lucky day because about 75 miles from your front door is Kansas City, and thats where Canfield and Joseph gets their Petrobond sand mix from and with you that close I would be doing me some phone work. see if I couldn't locate who is mixing for them. as matter of fact heres their contact info in KC
Kansas City, KS (800) 933-3643 •Pat Mann, Sales Rep / Email / 918-688-0107 this appers to be a tulsa number but they can help you, they will deal with a little guy. I've bought from the Tulsa Office before.

You also have in St Louis and outfit call Small Foundry Supply, give em a google check em out.

David
David and Charlie aka the shop monster

If life seems normal your not going fast enough" Mario Andrette
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