Harry wrote:Yep Mike, every bit one shovel at a time.
I have a pit out front a little over 4' deep I dig sand out of. There was on old wash there and the sand is coarse and clean. Makes good concrete. I haul about a 1/4 yd at a time in my little dump trailer on the garden tractor up to the mixer then wheel barrow it from there. It is a load of work but so worth it. I now have about 24 x 36' done with about that much more I want to pour.
The next 12 x 36 along the open side of my shop that will eventually get a roof over it and closed in I am thinking of adding pex pipe loops under the slab. Some day I might get a heat exchanger together and be able to heat the shop this way and the rolls of pipe are cheap so it wont be more than a couple hundred dollars to have it in there. I am quite enamored with ground mass thermal storage and want to have a go at it.
That sure would make the toes nice and toasty in the middle of winter
Most of the concrete around our house I poured my self, some by hand, I have a 2.5 cubic mixer and some by ready mix, some I even employed concreters because at the time I was starting work at 11 pm and finishing at 7 am 5 days a week, I would then work Saturday and Sunday nights as overtime soooooo for the most part I was absolutely knackered and couldn't face the concreting so I employed people to do it for me, it cost more but at least it got done
As a matter of interest Harry how much do you pay for a 90 lb bag of cement, last bag that I brought would have been about 2000 and I think then it cost about $8
Mike
When life gets tough, remember: You were the strongest sperm
Man, I am slow getting back... I had a brother come visiting this last week and along with other things have been completely wrapped up. There are five boys in my family and one girl, we all live in California except the one and last we saw him was about 8 years ago so there have been a parade of get togethers during his visit.
Anyhoo, yep Mike I think the earth heat storage would work out great in the shop especially if I can pump the heat in using waste oil.
On the concrete... sure is a lot of work but once done it is just there for like damn near forever. Cement here is about the same price and about aq dollar a bag more for plastic cement which I always buy. It is slightly more water resistant and I think keeping the water out is good but as long as there is a roof over it the ground below will dry anyhow so it probably doesnt matter much. I mix rich at about 5 sand to a cement, what might be called 5 sack or 500 lbs of cement per ton of sand. It holds up really well to traffic and gets hard and anything, any way it works out its better than working on dirt.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun... Muller
One thing y'all might keep in mind is that the average contractor (in this case, the concrete provider) hate's pay'n the taxman as much as we do. Never take their quote as the end all response... After I get their initial price for services and product I ALWAYS ask, ..." and how much would it be without informing the county (or IRS, or whatever the "taxman" in your area is called)? He'll eyeball you for a second and if he gets a good read off your demeanor he'll quietly ask for your phone number and hook up with you after hours and talk shop about what it is you're wanting to have cast in crete. In other words, you provide him a form to dump into, be patient and wait, do the leveling and finishing yourself, you'd be amazed what they'd be willing to do for you on a drive by at their convenience. Many times these concrete outfits get projects to cast that end up with overages in payloads they have to find some place to dump it before returning to the yard. If you live in a city this scenario plays out many times a week. Tell the man what it is you're wanting done and listen to his advice in how to "phase" it in multiple casts (if it's a big project) and he will work with you on the delivery and pour to dump their truck (when they have excess) so they don't have to pay a fee to dump it elsewhere. None of them guys like pour'n good concrete out onto the ground or in a ditch. If you live within fifteen to twenty minutes from a project they have goin' on they'll deliver and dump (after giving you a head's up call) for nuth'n more than tip money. Or... if you live out of town and have a large project it'd be impossible to do in sections the first half of this message would apply. The guy I got to cast my 30'x50' thickend edge 6" slab foundation took two full trucks. I guaranteed his driver wouldn't be on site more than 20 minutes and I'd have the forms ready and a crew ready to off load it (a bunch of teenagers I paid 50 bucks each). The concrete provider charged me 1,500. Prior to that the cheapest quote I got on casting that slab (from every contractor out there in the community) was 15,000. The concrete guy put that 1,500 in his pocket and all I paid for was the use of the truck, the driver's time and his cost in producing the product. The county and the taxman wasn't involved. The taxman, though, of course gets his with the added value of the property improvement each year, but at least I didn't have to pay for some contractor's vacation up front in the expense of lay'n the crete in the form. It ain't that hard to finish concrete, especially if it's just a shop floor. Power finishers, though, do a marvelous job at make'n yer mistakes smooth as glass and they rent for pretty cheap, as do the extended handled trowels. The total on finish'n that slab was 2,000 If you still have floor to cast, Harry, get ready to frame it up and go have that talk with the concrete provider. work it out with him on how best to do it in partial casts, or if it's not a large amount (by his standards) he'll work you a sweet deal for a full one shot cast. Talk from the heart with the fella and show him ya ain't some rich screw look'n for a freebie, you're just a work'n stiff need'n a break to improve your home shop conditions. You'll be amazed what the guy would be willign to do for ya. If not him, his competitor would. One of 'em for sure, though.
Harry wrote:Man, I am slow getting back... I had a brother come visiting this last week and along with other things have been completely wrapped up. There are five boys in my family and one girl, we all live in California except the one and last we saw him was about 8 years ago so there have been a parade of get togethers during his visit.
Anyhoo, yep Mike I think the earth heat storage would work out great in the shop especially if I can pump the heat in using waste oil.
On the concrete... sure is a lot of work but once done it is just there for like damn near forever. Cement here is about the same price and about aq dollar a bag more for plastic cement which I always buy. It is slightly more water resistant and I think keeping the water out is good but as long as there is a roof over it the ground below will dry anyhow so it probably doesnt matter much. I mix rich at about 5 sand to a cement, what might be called 5 sack or 500 lbs of cement per ton of sand. It holds up really well to traffic and gets hard and anything, any way it works out its better than working on dirt.
The mix we always used for cattle troughs, septic tanks and any cast concrete was 4 cement 7 sand and 11 of 1/2 gravel, it was a very good mix nice and plastic and easy to use
Mike
When life gets tough, remember: You were the strongest sperm
F.C. wrote:One thing y'all might keep in mind is that the average contractor (in this case, the concrete provider) hate's pay'n the taxman as much as we do. Never take their quote as the end all response... After I get their initial price for services and product I ALWAYS ask, ..." and how much would it be without informing the county (or IRS, or whatever the "taxman" in your area is called)? He'll eyeball you for a second and if he gets a good read off your demeanor he'll quietly ask for your phone number and hook up with you after hours and talk shop about what it is you're wanting to have cast in crete. In other words, you provide him a form to dump into, be patient and wait, do the leveling and finishing yourself, you'd be amazed what they'd be willing to do for you on a drive by at their convenience. Many times these concrete outfits get projects to cast that end up with overages in payloads they have to find some place to dump it before returning to the yard. If you live in a city this scenario plays out many times a week. Tell the man what it is you're wanting done and listen to his advice in how to "phase" it in multiple casts (if it's a big project) and he will work with you on the delivery and pour to dump their truck (when they have excess) so they don't have to pay a fee to dump it elsewhere. None of them guys like pour'n good concrete out onto the ground or in a ditch. If you live within fifteen to twenty minutes from a project they have goin' on they'll deliver and dump (after giving you a head's up call) for nuth'n more than tip money. Or... if you live out of town and have a large project it'd be impossible to do in sections the first half of this message would apply. The guy I got to cast my 30'x50' thickend edge 6" slab foundation took two full trucks. I guaranteed his driver wouldn't be on site more than 20 minutes and I'd have the forms ready and a crew ready to off load it (a bunch of teenagers I paid 50 bucks each). The concrete provider charged me 1,500. Prior to that the cheapest quote I got on casting that slab (from every contractor out there in the community) was 15,000. The concrete guy put that 1,500 in his pocket and all I paid for was the use of the truck, the driver's time and his cost in producing the product. The county and the taxman wasn't involved. The taxman, though, of course gets his with the added value of the property improvement each year, but at least I didn't have to pay for some contractor's vacation up front in the expense of lay'n the crete in the form. It ain't that hard to finish concrete, especially if it's just a shop floor. Power finishers, though, do a marvelous job at make'n yer mistakes smooth as glass and they rent for pretty cheap, as do the extended handled trowels. The total on finish'n that slab was 2,000 If you still have floor to cast, Harry, get ready to frame it up and go have that talk with the concrete provider. work it out with him on how best to do it in partial casts, or if it's not a large amount (by his standards) he'll work you a sweet deal for a full one shot cast. Talk from the heart with the fella and show him ya ain't some rich screw look'n for a freebie, you're just a work'n stiff need'n a break to improve your home shop conditions. You'll be amazed what the guy would be willign to do for ya. If not him, his competitor would. One of 'em for sure, though.
Yes Frank cash is the way to go. I have known plenty of people over the years that have used left over ready-mix for driveways and such
Mike
When life gets tough, remember: You were the strongest sperm
