Ive been thinking about this for a while, mostly pertaining to the T rabbet plane that I cast in bronze. That pine that I made the pattern from has some issues and is horribly unstable. It was fine until I put shellac on it, which took quite a good bit of shellac because of how porous the wood is and how much it absorbed it in, and how much it took till it started actually building up a layer of shellac on the outside to smooth it off. Ive made plenty of patterns with it and almost every single one, it's been the same on how much shellac it takes to seal it up. The T rabbet plane pattern was a bit thinner than the normal patterns Ive made with it, and I think the thickness of the patterns kept it from moving that much in the past.
The problem with it was that when I put the shellac on it, the wood really really bowed hard in towards the parting line, causing it to warp pretty extensively, and I had to clamp the pattern down to get it back flat. Thankfully, the pattern ended up going back flat when the shellac had fully dried on it's own, and I figured that would have been the extent of it. Well, when I left the pattern out at the molding bench and it had rained that night, the pattern once again did that, and I had to wait for it to dry back out before it would flatten back out again to be able to ram it up, and it kinda warpped again once I rammed it up from the moisture out there I think. It has gone back flat again now that it's in a box of patterns here in the house.
That really got me thinking after seeing something, about wood finishes and paints and such, how they tend to create kinda a plastic layer on the wood that blocks moisture from getting in, and with the pattern having thinner coat on the parting line to seal it up and multiple coatings of shellac soaked into the outside to seal it up and smooth it off so it releases from the sand easily, I think the shellac on the outside is blocking the wood from evenly absorbing the moisture and moving evenly, and instead just warping like it is.
That got me looking into various old old finishes and saw linseed oil paints, which was mostly just raw linseed oil with pigments and cooked with some red lead added in to act as a chemical dryer, which even in some old patternmaking books, I saw that mentioned. I was watching a video a while back from the 1930s that was on the one foundry, and they were showing some patternmaking. When they were doing the coatings, they were talking aboutvarnishing the patterns with shellac, but to me, it really did not look like shellac at all and honestly looked more so like a thin runny paint, which was added right after using some putty on it to fill in dowel pin holes and nail holes.
I was looking at very oldschool linseed oil paints for houses and such, which can let the wood breathe and let it move easier, but adds some protection to the wood and makes it very smooth, and it looks exactly the same as in the old video and the same linseed oil putty was used in it too. Ive been kinda going down this rabbit hole for a few weeks now, and while I wont be using red lead as a dryer, zinc oxide works as a chemical dryer too, just not as quick to dry is all. So instead of a few hours for it to dry, it might take a day or two for it to fully dry and cure. With the linseed oil paint, it seems to not be waxy or grippy like modern paints either, wont flake off like some finishes, and seems to come out nice and smooth in the end, so seems to be an interesting experiment to try anyways.
I had some flax seed oil here that has been sitting in the cellar for years, so I grabbed it out and mixed it with some salt water and sand in a jar, and keep shaking it a few times a day to refine it. I figured that I would try to refine the flax seed oil into raw linseed oil, which seems easy enough to do really, since I already have everything needed, and I'd try making a small batch of the paint. The old patternmaking books also talked about using woods like oak and such, which is very unstable and warps really badly seasonally, yet alone with the large humidity swings in the sand molding area, so I think there might be something to the whole linseed oil paint and such on the patterns.
I realize that I should just stop using that pine for patterns and anything that needs to be precise in the future so I dont run into this again, which Im already planning on not using again in the future, but figured I'd try seeing if I can figure out other finishes that would work too, and compare them, just in case I make up a pattern again and I find that it starts to give me problems, or if I have to make up a pattern to get sent off to get cast at a commercial foundry for someone else, then I can paint it up with the standard foundry colors so there's no confusion on what goes where for the molders.
Just alot of thoughts on finishes for foundry patterns, where Im coming from, and experimenting just being dumpped here I guess, lol. I think if I can find something like how I am thinking the linseed oil paints will work, even with the less stable and rougher grain woods, that would open alot of possibilities up to me on materials I can use since up till now, Ive been limited to the pine and cherry, and be able to use hard maple and other woods that also have finer grain, and is much harder and would hold up much better long term to the abuse. Ive tried a few different paints and have not been happy with any of them because they've always been very grippy, and/or wouldnt go on very smooth, so kinda abandoned the idea of using paint up to this point, but if I can find something else for patterns than shellac, it might be good for some patterns where they might be likely to warp due to shape, or might be good for use on 3d printed patterns for matchplates and such too.
Sorry about the huge write up/book, just throwing out alot of thoughts really, lol.
My Hand Planes
Re: My Hand Planes
Well, a little bit of an update on the linseed oil situation. It has thickened up considerably and is about the same consitancy as sodium silicate. I put a bit, just soaking it on to a piece of pine, and within 24 hours, it had soaked in and was cured. I ran my thumb over it with considerable pressure and there was no oil residue on my finger, so it was dry. The color is crystal clear and has a slight yellow tint to it, but it really doesnt show up when you add it to the wood, or doesnt really yellow the wood. So yea, I would call that a pretty good success, lol.
The other thing is that as you know, I made those tapering planes up a while back and wanted to make some sort of dowel making planes to turn my scraps into dowels, rather than having to turn all of it by hand on the lathe, so I had some wooden blocks that I tried making the rounding planes/dowel making planes from, but it was a complete failure. I had cut the mouth too low and it just failed completely.
I was messing with some stuff and made up these instead. They're just made of mild steel that I had laying around, but they work pretty well. The blades are bed frame as usual.
They were rolled up, cut up to create the mouth in them, and they were drilled and tapped for #10-24. After that, I made some bed frame blades and got those all machined up and ground to profile.
Thats about it, now I can take the scraps from the table saw and turn them into wooden dowels, and when I need one, I can just grab one, use it in the tapering planes for a post/boss/stand off, cut that off, glue it into the pattern, and I can toss the rest of the dowel back in the stock rack. Since I have to turn the stuff on the lathe between centers, I have no chuck to re-chuck stuff up, I end up with alot of waste if I try turning the stuff on the lathe. These solve the problem.
The other thing is that as you know, I made those tapering planes up a while back and wanted to make some sort of dowel making planes to turn my scraps into dowels, rather than having to turn all of it by hand on the lathe, so I had some wooden blocks that I tried making the rounding planes/dowel making planes from, but it was a complete failure. I had cut the mouth too low and it just failed completely.
I was messing with some stuff and made up these instead. They're just made of mild steel that I had laying around, but they work pretty well. The blades are bed frame as usual.
Re: My Hand Planes
Those look pretty cool. Useful if you need a lot of dowels. Are you bale to use them on a hardwood? I saw your video and have subscribed to you on Odysee and Kick. I didn't see anywhere to post a comment.
Re: My Hand Planes
Yea, I wanted to use the offcuts from the table saw and such, just knock the corners down quickly, then run it through those to create the dowel rods, then I can use those for the foundry patterns. Around here, you can only get really coarse grain beech or oak dowel rods, and neither are good for patterns really, so I wanted to make them from cherry, since I already have the offcuts here for free. Then in the middle of winter when Im working on patterns, I dont have to run out to the garage to try to turn a few short pieces, when I can just grab a dowel rod and run it through the tapering planes after marking it for length, and then cut it off to length for where it needs to go. Ive had a few situations where I tried mixing woods before on a pattern and shrinkage and seasonal movement caused it to pull so hard that it actually bowed a pattern, so I try to keep with the same type of wood, usually from the same boards, if I can.
I have no idea how comments work on odysee, which I should have them enabled on there, but kick, if you just type something in the chat on the right side of the screen, I should see it. I know pat was having issues typing in the chat, but he was running through a vpn and it was messing with some things, and kept blocking him. But yea, just type something in the chat and Ill see it, and I can chat with you through that if youre on at the same time.
I did say that I was going to go out and ram up sand molds, but I didnt get that far, lol. I was so tired that I could barely keep awake, and I got up to do it, suddenly everyone decided that we were going to sort everything in the garage for garage sale stuff, which wont happen for a few weeks at least, lol. So yea, no sand molds done up. I got around 3 hours of sleep as of the time of writing, otherwise I'd go out and ram them up right now and pour in the morning, lol. I dont really have anything that's super high on the priority list in the sand molding boxes, so it's no rush really, lol.
I have no idea how comments work on odysee, which I should have them enabled on there, but kick, if you just type something in the chat on the right side of the screen, I should see it. I know pat was having issues typing in the chat, but he was running through a vpn and it was messing with some things, and kept blocking him. But yea, just type something in the chat and Ill see it, and I can chat with you through that if youre on at the same time.
I did say that I was going to go out and ram up sand molds, but I didnt get that far, lol. I was so tired that I could barely keep awake, and I got up to do it, suddenly everyone decided that we were going to sort everything in the garage for garage sale stuff, which wont happen for a few weeks at least, lol. So yea, no sand molds done up. I got around 3 hours of sleep as of the time of writing, otherwise I'd go out and ram them up right now and pour in the morning, lol. I dont really have anything that's super high on the priority list in the sand molding boxes, so it's no rush really, lol.
Re: My Hand Planes
Well, Im still here fiddling with my toys and planes, and I figured I'd give a bit of an update on an idea Ive poked at before, lol. Ive talked about making a hand plane to do checkering, which is the diamond cross hatch pattern on wood, almost like a knurl on metal. Ive fought with trying to figure it out for a while and Ive pretty much failed at every turn. I made the checkering tools up a while back and I did do the one pattern with them, but it turned out like absolute crap imo, but it was visible in a bad way...
Here's the checkering tools I made up a few years ago.
They are commonly used for doing gunsmithing, which creates a decorative pattern on the grips and areas you grip on the gunstocks, so you get a better grip, same as knurling for metal. Old patterns commonly had checkering on them to break up flat surfaces and give it some decorative look to it, even tho most people never really noticed it.
Ive used it on the one pattern that I did up, but it didnt look that great at all, and really had to get creative on trying to get it all leveled out. It had tore out the one section and I had cut out a section in the center where it was the worst, and glued a popsickle stick in the pocket left to put my logo there, but some of it still showed up unfortunately.
If you look at the lines closely, they're not very parallel and there's a chunk missing of the checkering/knurl pattern just below the logo. I think most of it is just that I dont have the skills to use the tools, nor the patience to do one line at a time for a big board, lol. The tools are designed to act like files, rather than cutting tools, so they're very slow to cut.
So that's where the idea for the checkering plane came in. I figured I'd make up a plane that could do a dozen or so lines at once at least, that way I can go across the piece of wood quickly. I made a few planes in the past to make up a checkering plane, like the chariout plane, but when I went to use it, I just wasnt happy with it at all for that purpose or there was something that just wasnt right on it, so I had abandoned that plane/design for another one, and it went on the shelf as an unfinished project. Thats where that project had gone to for the last year or so, and Ive still had that design in the back of my mind till today since Ive just been determined to conquer that part of patternmaking.
Here's the checkering tools I made up a few years ago.
- StanleyNo.271Plane4-Big.jpg (220.37 KiB) Viewed 55 times
So that's where the idea for the checkering plane came in. I figured I'd make up a plane that could do a dozen or so lines at once at least, that way I can go across the piece of wood quickly. I made a few planes in the past to make up a checkering plane, like the chariout plane, but when I went to use it, I just wasnt happy with it at all for that purpose or there was something that just wasnt right on it, so I had abandoned that plane/design for another one, and it went on the shelf as an unfinished project. Thats where that project had gone to for the last year or so, and Ive still had that design in the back of my mind till today since Ive just been determined to conquer that part of patternmaking.
Re: My Hand Planes
That leads me into probably the final version of the checkering planes, which Im going to make up a little different, but it'll be a pipe plane as usual, but this one will have box tubing instead of round/pill shape, lol. I just took one of the pill shape small ones I had and clampped it in the vise with the 1" shank of my anvil cutoff tool, and forged the end in so it made it square. If I had to do it again, I know there's a better way I would do it, but for this time, it did work. The box tubing was forged out, and the base was brazed on as usual, then roughly cut out using the portaband. Ill probably machine the flanges that I usually have on the sides, Ill machine those flush with the side walls.
They were then pickled in cleaning vinegar for a few days, which dissolves all of the mill scale, with a brushing with a wire brush every other day, and it cleaned all of it off and was back to grey metal. A quick pass over it with the wire wheel and it shined right up.
Thats as far as Ive gotten on that project atm, but I have been getting ready to machine that up any day since I am going through with this one 100% and Im happy with the size, feel in hands, etc, it's exactly what Im after this time, lol.
I was setting the stuff up on the mill to be able to mill the V grooves in the bottom of it, and while I was setting it up, I was wanting a long sole half round plane that was really low profile that I could use to get into coreboxes and clean up the sides of coreboxes after I chisel out the majority of the waste. My corebox bits for the electric router only goes up to 1", and most coreboxes I need is 1 1/4" or some other size than what I actually have, lol. On top of that, I didnt have a fence or anything for the router, so I couldnt use it to cut the coreboxes anyhow.
So I ended up forging a crank neck gouge more or less and set it up on the mill using the reverse V block/angle plate I made ages ago. I flipped the angle plate upside down and clampped it on the mill table at 45 degrees, so the sides were now square, and used a 3/4" endmill to mill a V groove in the side of it, so when it was set up, it made a V block that pointed straight up at 45 degrees, and held round stock and round'ish stuff at 45 degrees. The round bar was cut at 45 degrees, and the crank neck gouge forging had the mouth cut at 45 degrees for the blade angle, then the round bar was cut off to length and I tack welded it into the body. I then drilled through both of them and riveted it together, so I knew it wouldnt move no matter what in the forge, and it went back into the forge to braze it all together, lol. (belt, suspenders, garderbelt, etc, so I knew it wouldnt come apart ever again, lol)
I need to file the mouth back out and clean up the braze, then drill and tap it for a #10-24 screw, and it'll be ready for a blade. The crank neck will let me get into the coreboxes without needing to worry about busting my knuckles on the edges. I figured that would let me clean those up and level out the middles of the coreboxes since my carved coreboxes tend to have a tiny belly in the middles where it makes the cores a tiny bit thinner, but it doesnt really hurt anything other than annoying me, lol. This should fix that.
The angle plate is set up for the checkering plane to do the bottom on it, so whenever I get it all cleaned up on the shaper, Ill take it over there to cut the mouth, bed angle, etc. I wanted a 30 degree blade angle probably, since the plane is completly different than other planes, so I can get a little creative with angles and such, and lower the blade, the better the blade will hold up. It'll be a bevel up plane, but the bevel angle on the blade will be so high that it is almost vertical, and makes it like a scraper or a toothing plane.
I was setting the stuff up on the mill to be able to mill the V grooves in the bottom of it, and while I was setting it up, I was wanting a long sole half round plane that was really low profile that I could use to get into coreboxes and clean up the sides of coreboxes after I chisel out the majority of the waste. My corebox bits for the electric router only goes up to 1", and most coreboxes I need is 1 1/4" or some other size than what I actually have, lol. On top of that, I didnt have a fence or anything for the router, so I couldnt use it to cut the coreboxes anyhow.
So I ended up forging a crank neck gouge more or less and set it up on the mill using the reverse V block/angle plate I made ages ago. I flipped the angle plate upside down and clampped it on the mill table at 45 degrees, so the sides were now square, and used a 3/4" endmill to mill a V groove in the side of it, so when it was set up, it made a V block that pointed straight up at 45 degrees, and held round stock and round'ish stuff at 45 degrees. The round bar was cut at 45 degrees, and the crank neck gouge forging had the mouth cut at 45 degrees for the blade angle, then the round bar was cut off to length and I tack welded it into the body. I then drilled through both of them and riveted it together, so I knew it wouldnt move no matter what in the forge, and it went back into the forge to braze it all together, lol. (belt, suspenders, garderbelt, etc, so I knew it wouldnt come apart ever again, lol)
The angle plate is set up for the checkering plane to do the bottom on it, so whenever I get it all cleaned up on the shaper, Ill take it over there to cut the mouth, bed angle, etc. I wanted a 30 degree blade angle probably, since the plane is completly different than other planes, so I can get a little creative with angles and such, and lower the blade, the better the blade will hold up. It'll be a bevel up plane, but the bevel angle on the blade will be so high that it is almost vertical, and makes it like a scraper or a toothing plane.
Re: My Hand Planes
I was trying to mess with the checkering tools again, trying to modify them, etc to get them to work for me and not make an absolute mess out of it, I was looking at them and thinking "what would happen if I had more teeth, would that help even out the surface and make it easier/faster?". Well, I thought about it and decided to make something like a cranked neck float, like you use for woodworking and gunsmithing, so it would have a 1" wide face, and I didnt have to worry about it busting my knucles in use. I went out and found a random slitting chisel that I had forged out of some coil spring laying in the floor next to the scrap bucket, so I hammered it out into the shape I wanted.
I then took it into the shaper and cleaned up the bottom to get it flat and perfectly parallel, which it was very close as it was, and I figured, "why not try to use the shaper to cut the V grooves in it?", lol. I just ground up a 90 degree V bit and tried cutting it, which it went pretty quickly and easily, so I may just use the shaper to cut the V grooves on the bottom of the planes after all rather than trying to clamp them to the mill tbh. The coil spring was some really hard and tough stuff, and it didnt take much effort at all to do on the shaper, just turning the machine over by hand, so the softer steel of the planes should be much easier. I stepped over and cut a V groove every 1/16", so I would have 16 lines per inch, and ended up with 15 lines across it. I then took it back to the forge and put two 3/8" rods on the anvil to support the V grooves since 3/8"-16 threaded rod. I gave it a few good smacks right in the middle of it and it bent the part that was just machined into a half round shape, and it was heat treated.
At this point, it was around 3:30 in the morning and I was tired, but determined to finish the idea, so I had just used the dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut a series of grooves across the teeth and slightly deeper, which it didnt come out very pretty at all, but it did add teeth that could cut. I wanted to cut the slots off square because I figured that if I was trying to do square checkering, which is most common of what I'd do, if it was square across, it could dip down into between the teeth and tear the teeth off, but if it was skewed, there would always be some contact with the tops of the wood and it'd prevent that.
After a little adjusting and playing with it, I can now get the checkering, although slowly and sometimes still fights me, but it's 1000% better than what I was doing before.
You can see the checkering with my old tools on the left and right, and with it in the middle with the new checkering float.
And after a little more messing with it, I tried it in some basswood, and tried a diamond pattern, like you would have on gunstocks and such, and it took less than a minute to do, but it looks good in person, with true diamond top checkering. Youre supposed to put some sort of oil on it before checkering to help support the wood fibers, but I was doing it in very soft basswood and doing it dry, so it looks a little more fuzzy in the pic, but in reality, it is very nice looking.
That's about it for that tool, and it'll work good for me for now. Ill still do the planes up because I do believe it can and will do a better job with less chewy looking checkering, and do it with less mistakes since I can use a guide to get the angles and everything right, so Im still working on getting those done up probably tonight or sometime soon.
Also, a little side note, I was looking at those router planes above, when you zoom in on the one, you can see really clear, crisp, diamonds with nice points, and at this point, I realized something that could have been a bit obvious of how it was made. I think the original pattern was made of brass, and they just stuck a piece of brass sheet on the shaper, set a 1/16" feed with a 90 degree V bit, and went across the sheet, then turned the vise 90 degrees and did it again to create the checkering. Then the rest of the pieces were just soldered in place to make a permanent pattern that would have been used on a matchplate probably.
And at this point, I realize I have been doing it the hard way this whole time, and just machining up the stuff using the shaper was the easiest way to do it, lol. My shaper cant do 1/16" step overs, so it wouldnt work for me unfortunately tho. I do plan on doing up the planes and seeing how close I can get to the look of the machined look.
Thats all I have for now, lots to read, but lots of progress and not a lot of updates for a while, lol. At least I have something I can use to do checkering for patterns now anyways for the time being till I can come up with something better.
I then took it into the shaper and cleaned up the bottom to get it flat and perfectly parallel, which it was very close as it was, and I figured, "why not try to use the shaper to cut the V grooves in it?", lol. I just ground up a 90 degree V bit and tried cutting it, which it went pretty quickly and easily, so I may just use the shaper to cut the V grooves on the bottom of the planes after all rather than trying to clamp them to the mill tbh. The coil spring was some really hard and tough stuff, and it didnt take much effort at all to do on the shaper, just turning the machine over by hand, so the softer steel of the planes should be much easier. I stepped over and cut a V groove every 1/16", so I would have 16 lines per inch, and ended up with 15 lines across it. I then took it back to the forge and put two 3/8" rods on the anvil to support the V grooves since 3/8"-16 threaded rod. I gave it a few good smacks right in the middle of it and it bent the part that was just machined into a half round shape, and it was heat treated.
At this point, it was around 3:30 in the morning and I was tired, but determined to finish the idea, so I had just used the dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut a series of grooves across the teeth and slightly deeper, which it didnt come out very pretty at all, but it did add teeth that could cut. I wanted to cut the slots off square because I figured that if I was trying to do square checkering, which is most common of what I'd do, if it was square across, it could dip down into between the teeth and tear the teeth off, but if it was skewed, there would always be some contact with the tops of the wood and it'd prevent that.
You can see the checkering with my old tools on the left and right, and with it in the middle with the new checkering float.
Also, a little side note, I was looking at those router planes above, when you zoom in on the one, you can see really clear, crisp, diamonds with nice points, and at this point, I realized something that could have been a bit obvious of how it was made. I think the original pattern was made of brass, and they just stuck a piece of brass sheet on the shaper, set a 1/16" feed with a 90 degree V bit, and went across the sheet, then turned the vise 90 degrees and did it again to create the checkering. Then the rest of the pieces were just soldered in place to make a permanent pattern that would have been used on a matchplate probably.
And at this point, I realize I have been doing it the hard way this whole time, and just machining up the stuff using the shaper was the easiest way to do it, lol. My shaper cant do 1/16" step overs, so it wouldnt work for me unfortunately tho. I do plan on doing up the planes and seeing how close I can get to the look of the machined look.
Thats all I have for now, lots to read, but lots of progress and not a lot of updates for a while, lol. At least I have something I can use to do checkering for patterns now anyways for the time being till I can come up with something better.
Re: My Hand Planes
Oh yea, router fence I mentioned above. I didnt have a fence for my old router, and I wanted one to keep it as original to what would have come with it, so I made up the patterns for it sometime last year, and finally got around to casting one out, along with a few other things.
I filed all of the flashing off of it, cleaned up the back of it, laid out and drilled the holes for the guide rods, and drilled and tapped for some 10-24 bolts, which would have been on it originally, and what the router itself uses. I didnt have any button head or 10-24 wing bolts handy, so I just stuck some socket head countersunk bolts in there for now. Ill make some up and replace them soon enough.
Thats about it, Ill make up some brass tipped thumbscrews/wing bolts so I dont damage the guide rods, but other thtan that, I'd say that's done and fully usable now to cut coreboxes using my corebox bits now, lol.
Re: My Hand Planes
David Allen would have liked those checkering tools. He made some rifles. I sent him and a friend a bunch of lead for their bullets. All those planes are looking good.
Re: My Hand Planes
yea, I know he messed with guns because I remember talking to him about him machining some gun part on the shaper. He did a video up showing machining it on his big cincinatti shaper that I was drooling over, lol.
I had a few mins last night in between working on stuff and grabbed a piece of wood from the crate and turned it down to make a handle for the checkering float, and made a leather cover/sheath for it so it doesnt get banged around in the toolbox when I put it away, and it wont tear anything else up if something shifts in there.
I put one sealing coat of shellac on it, a light sanding, and some paste wax on it, and as soon as the wax hardens and is buffed in, it's ready for the toolbox. I'd call that one done now, just want to do the planes to experiment with it to see what works better. I have a feeling that this tool might be faster, but the plane will be much more controllable and accurate, so I plan on doing it up to see.
I had a few mins last night in between working on stuff and grabbed a piece of wood from the crate and turned it down to make a handle for the checkering float, and made a leather cover/sheath for it so it doesnt get banged around in the toolbox when I put it away, and it wont tear anything else up if something shifts in there.